1. There is no evidence at all that God exists or that Christianity is true. 2. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence/miracles don't happen. 3. Atheists are smart and religious people are stupid. 4. Christians are only Christians because they were born in a country with a lot of Christians. 5. There are a lot of other religions that have an equal chance of being true. 6. God does terrible things in the Old Testament. 7. All the arguments for God were refuted long ago, and newer versions of those arguments are not taken seriously by anyone except for a small number of Christians. 8. At best the Bible has a bunch of stupid myths that nobody should take seriously. 9. If there is one error in the Bible that's a huge problem for Christianity 10. Many scientists are atheists. 11. There is plenty of evil and suffering in the world. 12. Religion causes war and religious people do terrible things. This world would be a better place without religion. 13. If something can't be proven scientifically, then we shouldn't take it seriously. 14. The gospels were written long after Jesus was crucified, and eyewitness testimony is unreliable. 15. If God really did exist, he would show himself to everyone so we would all be saved. 16. Any other objections by Sam Harris that I didn't mention go here. 17. Christianity's beliefs about Jesus were copied from pagan religions. There, you don't have to go to an atheist board now.

Well, these are my views on those statements. 1. The bible doesn't prove that God exists, and does any other religion. 2. Yes. 3. They are both smart and stupid Atheists and Christians. 4. No. 5. Yes. 6. Yes. 7. No. 8. No. 9. No. 10. No. 11. There is no such thing as absolute good or absolute evil. 12. War is terrible, but religion can be good. 13. Kind of. 14. Yes. 15. Um. 16. I don't know who that is. 17. Um.

Sorry, I meant: 1. The bible doesn't prove that Gods exists, and neither does any other religion.

What I want to know is how people think 5 is an argument against the Bible. I mean, seriously? What?

Er, make that 6. Yes, 6. 5 I have yet to see some actual evidence on but 6 is just... what?

[quote]Er, make that 6. Yes, 6. 5 I have yet to see some actual evidence on but 6 is just... what?[/quote] God kills thousand of people in a giant flood, destroys entire cities, turns people into salt, and kills every Egyptians first born son just because the Pharaoh won't free the Jewish people.

Sorry again. The argument about 5 is "why would you want to worship a God that kills thousands of people just because a few of them were committing 'sins'"?

A... few of them. a FEW OF THEM. GTFO and learn basic Judeo-Christian theory, boy.

[quote]A... few of them. a FEW OF THEM. GTFO and learn basic Judeo-Christian theory, boy.[/quote] Still, the Atheist's argument is that if God is supposed to "loving" and "merciful", why does he kill so many people?

Because the atheist has no clue what "loving" and "merciful" is, apparently, or why they need to take a backseat to Judgment. When they can come up with a set of moral justifications that are better, and then be actually willing to enforce them, they can let the Christians know.

[quote]Because the atheist has no clue what "loving" and "merciful" is, apparently, or why they need to take a backseat to Judgment. When they can come up with a set of moral justifications that are better, and then be actually willing to enforce them, they can let the Christians know.[/quote] So to be "loving" and "merciful" you have to kill people in order to enforce you're morals? Wasn't that Hitler and Stalin's philosophy?

If God was "loving" and "merciful" then he should have given those people a second chance, and sent down a prophet like Jesus to help lead the people away from sin.

Yeah, because I'm totally letting a serial rapist have a second chance at life. These people KNEW the consequences for disobeying and did it anyway. This is not extreme punishment. It's amusing to see you think it is though and get all emotionally charged at it, however this does make it a valid argument.

[quote]Yeah, because I'm totally letting a serial rapist have a second chance at life. These people KNEW the consequences for disobeying and did it anyway. This is not extreme punishment. It's amusing to see you think it is though and get all emotionally charged at it, however this does make it a valid argument.[/quote] Well, I am a humanist and I do believe that everyone should get a second chance.

Maybe they wonder why a god would kill people for doing the things they were made to do. Maybe they were made to be killed by god too though, yes. Free will, ha.

I REALLY tire of your idiocy, Mud Lobster.

Wow. I totally forgot about Sheezyart about a year ago, and you guys are still at it with these theological discussions. If time hasn't taught anyone that people's opinions won't change, then I doubt anything will. Doomrater is still a Christian, I'm still an atheist, and Mudlobster is still a whatever-the-fuck. Evolution COV, you will find that arguing with Doomrater is a waste of time. You can throw all of your knowledge, reliable sources, and scientific facts at him, and it won't take no matter how you phrase it. His mind has been hard wired to believe in the illogical. He's sensitive to the point that he must put down those who refute scripture or any belief in his god, and he'll come up with some kind of deluded rationalization for any inconsistency, contradiction, or flaw in his ideology. He will use tactics such as saying that we are blind, that we must rationalize our lack of faith, and that the burden of proof is on us. There's no way around this guy's faith. It's just that strong, and he's just that deluded. Chances are he will come up with some sort of response to this, defending his preconceived notions about Christianity. Even if he responds without necessarily defending his views, in no way is this comment for him, or directed to him. Sometimes I just get tired of trying to teach crazies. Opening their eyes to anything other than mystical fairy tales is futile.

[quote]Wow. I totally forgot about Sheezyart about a year ago, and you guys are still at it with these theological discussions. If time hasn't taught anyone that people's opinions won't change, then I doubt anything will. Doomrater is still a Christian, I'm still an atheist, and Mudlobster is still a whatever-the-fuck. Evolution COV, you will find that arguing with Doomrater is a waste of time. You can throw all of your knowledge, reliable sources, and scientific facts at him, and it won't take no matter how you phrase it. His mind has been hard wired to believe in the illogical. He's sensitive to the point that he must put down those who refute scripture or any belief in his god, and he'll come up with some kind of deluded rationalization for any inconsistency, contradiction, or flaw in his ideology. He will use tactics such as saying that we are blind, that we must rationalize our lack of faith, and that the burden of proof is on us. There's no way around this guy's faith. It's just that strong, and he's just that deluded. Chances are he will come up with some sort of response to this, defending his preconceived notions about Christianity. Even if he responds without necessarily defending his views, in no way is this comment for him, or directed to him. Sometimes I just get tired of trying to teach crazies. Opening their eyes to anything other than mystical fairy tales is futile.[/quote] Your response says more than enough, actually. 1. I'm trying to change any of the arguers here? Yeah, anyone with half a brain figured out ten years ago that wasn't the case. 2. WHAT sources have been actually stated here? Looks more like everyone's going 'bla' without the detail or argumentation to back it up, myself included. 3. People have pointed out flaws in the Christian ideology? That's news. Maybe you could actually link a few? 4. If people would actually BOTHER to argue against Christianity and do it right, maybe I'd listen. But all I see are tired, repeated canards that have been answered time and again. Kinda like the 17 listed in this thread. So really, you're just whining about how little things change. Do you actually have any comment RELEVANT to this thread? Like, something not presented on this list? As ridiculous as Mud Lobster's comment was, at least he had something to contribute, atheist argument number 18.

I knew Doomrater would have something to say in response. But I really have nothing better to do for these next two weeks, so why not play along? No matter how much valid information you throw at the deeply religious, in most cases they won't actually listen, but instead claim that no actual or convincing argument was made (again, no matter how valid the point you make is). In this case, I will try to present some arguments to refute claims made in the Bible. I certainly won't be able disprove the existence of any god, but I can certainly rule out certain events that happened within the Bible beyond any reasonable doubt. Before I start, I need to know if Doomrater believes that the accounts in the book of Genesis (and any other book of the Bible for that matter) actually happened. Arguing fundamentalist and evangelical Christianity is way different from arguing with Christians who accept the findings of modern science. All I need to know is whether or not you believe everything in the Bible (the story of Adam and Eve in Eden with the talking snake, Noah and the Great Flood, the tradition that Moses was the author of the Torah, etc.) as being literal and historic. After that is determined, I promise to make some arguments (then Doomrater can tell me if he has heard them, whether or not they're valid or can be refuted, and why they're invalid if that is the case).

Nothing like attempting to shoehorn the entire bible as either literal or allegory, eh? Don't think I wasn't going to point that out beforehand. The accounts are observer-true. Pslamic books are metaphorical advice, far from absolutist comments. Job sits somewhere in the middle of these two- there's a ton of poetic literacy going on throughout the entire ordeal, but it describes what happened to Job and why. And why in the heck are you asking about the "tradition" of Moses being author of the Torah?! I smell JEDP theory already. Please tell me you're not going to use such garbage...